Comments on Mumbai Matters: Would you pay Mr. Adolf D'Souza Rs1 per day?

If you dont take bribes for illegal building or ge...

2010-01-21T11:51:26.553+05:30

If you dont take bribes for illegal building or get into any other corruption, things are different.Corrupt elected members dont ask for money they just take it from you,ask any shopkeeper or flats owners.If Mr.D'Souza is asking for help it shows he is not making money and and he want to do work like a good citizen.So many politicians make money and say they are poor.I saw Mr.D'Souza traveling by taxi to town to get work done for the ward.I remember visiting Juhu after many years,it was full of plastic and garbage.Who cleaned it.We should give more to him.So called poor
people living on the roads etc have money and food,go to Mahim and see.Give generously to yourself for a clean area.

I think the people who are against giving an uprig...

2009-03-31T16:30:00.000+05:30

I think the people who are against giving an upright person with an honest track record Re 1 per day are really not aware how our corporators manage to earn their funding...........please look around in your area at all the usurped public spaces, the illegal stalls, the hafta/shanty nexus and then you would be more than willing to pay Mr Desouza

Deepa - Sorry, I didn't reply to your last comment...

2008-05-24T18:00:00.000+05:30

Deepa - Sorry, I didn't reply to your last comment - thanks very much again for your kind words.

Anon - you can find that in my post here.

i stay in malad westwhich constituency do i belong...

2008-05-23T14:24:00.000+05:30

i stay in malad west
which constituency do i belong to

I still think you should post your take on the tea...

2007-10-27T04:24:00.000+05:30

I still think you should post your take on the tea ad. In addition to giving us the pleasure of reading it, that way it will open up the public particpation topic again.

Or else as you said, it was a one time election thing and anyway your tag of public participation has only one post so far. Sometimes one assumes that one is less important and 28 means more- in reality, it need not always be so.

quote:"please blog, please please blog" end of quote.

Thanks :)

Deepa

Deepa - Thanks for that comment and your kind word...

2007-10-26T07:39:00.000+05:30

Deepa - Thanks for that comment and your kind words. I don't know what to say! And where did I not listen to you? but still, if it results in you venting out your thoughts on your blog, then great! lol...

I don't think I have a great mind, so I will just ...

2007-10-25T22:03:00.000+05:30

I don't think I have a great mind, so I will just say two minds who think alike? the tea ad.

I wish we discuss the electoral reforms/other topics in more detail someday. It is really interesting to exchange thoughts with you. This is what I meant when I said somehwhere earlier, the blog/words are yours but the thoughts are mine. That is why I love it so much I guess. It echoes all I want to say but could never (articulate). Gosh that post of yours - words don't fail me but someday I hope to do a longer piece on why I like your writing so much.

Oh yes, the coffe, tea or me was of course inspired by you. Also as you do not listen to me, I had to do a complete post to vent my thoughts!

btw, wot I like most abt the ad is the "casting" . The netas are hilarious and I keep thinking that tea drinker is you! ha.. ha..

D

D - I did read it, and its weird because somewhere...

2007-10-24T22:03:00.000+05:30

D - I did read it, and its weird because somewhere in the comments thread I was going to make a mention of that, its a damn good ad! and then I find you've done a long post, referring to it (and thanks for the reference to this blog too!). Thanks..this debate was quite informative!

Thanks again ba, though can you kinda take that as...

2007-10-24T13:54:00.000+05:30

Thanks again ba, though can you kinda take that as a given always? Please read my post today if you can- I've given a reference to Africa where cahnge is happenning fast(er)! I am hoping to do one more post ispired by you on the topic.

I don't know about the profile of the BMC corporat...

2007-10-24T12:41:00.000+05:30

I don't know about the profile of the BMC corporators, but I do believe you can get the affidavits of your MLAs and MPs on the Chief Electoral Officer's website. However, for an election that is due to happen, I don't know if there's a way to ascertain a profile of the candidates. AGNI tried with the BMC elections this year, lets see how it goes for subsequent elections. Like you said, the change is happening, but slowly, slowly, slowly! Thanks for the comment.

Deepa - Lol, if that belongs there then a lot belo...

2007-10-24T12:27:00.000+05:30

Deepa - Lol, if that belongs there then a lot belongs there too, like politics, politicians and leaders. And that thing about doing a job well. In Mumbai, we need to get the job done, leave alone if its done well or not.

Anyways, if we have to mock the overall state of affairs, then obviously both of us agree but where do we go further than that?

1) Publishing of accounts - The issue is does the system already provide for such a thing? Perhaps AGNI, Karmayog and VoteMumbai should be asked if they know anything on this issue. I think Janaagraha has worked with VoteMumbai in their campaign for Mr. Adolf D'Souza. I do hope you get some answer from them.

2) RTI - Its only a tool. You have to decide what you want to do. At an individual level, there's barely anything you can do. But then you already know that. If all those people who file RTI applications know they can't do anything, then why are they still filing them? The RTI Act itself is such great proof of how the system gives the people a chance to know. And to ask the right question, you first need to know what to ask. Perhaps the RTI gives you that opportunity, assuming you want to ask the question at all.

Thanks for that link. The issue is controversial and I doubt it will find many takers. Like I said, on principle you can't defend that at all and chances are the people will vote him out and go in for a proper political party-backed corporator. I just hope they ask that person the right questions.

And thanks, as always, for the comment.

PS: ba- sorry, this got left out as I sometimes do...

2007-10-24T07:30:00.000+05:30

PS: ba- sorry, this got left out as I sometimes do my work offline. my response to your point on track records;

Please point me to any page where I can find profile of the any electoral candiates all in one place neatly classified/indexed. The track records- should be the most simple process of ascertaining. I am not suggesting that I do not take your word about the track record because I am not debating about Mr. X- only taking it as a case study. I do know it is true/ALM record of Mr.X.

Once it (profile/track) is available, I don't care if my corporator is of Jedi caste and sells fish and furniture for a living, how much money he makes or owns and frankly at a practical level, the convictions also do not make sense, so I will evaluate it ( censure the crime not the criminal principle etc). If he is,
-honest (pays his taxes, has a lifestyle reasonably proporationate to income;
-hardworking (has a steady source of livelihood) and can,
-handle responsibility (any one- as parent, child, student,employee, citizen)

I vote for him.

If he has a background of public service, I'd even campaign for him.

When I click on link given by you it takes me to page with lines of apache error gobbledygook- because it is a media/news site that undergoes changes and normally that is the only one we find. All the proponents of e-governance do not have any such site (so much for poster boys).

Electoral reforms, Corruption, PDS system. These are reforms gaps yet to be filled. It will happen. See the Income Tax one now!

ba- lol. Orgn. is larger than person belongs somew...

2007-10-24T07:15:00.000+05:30

ba- lol. Orgn. is larger than person belongs somewhere after low hanging fruits and after end of the day.

@ Publishing of accounts I gathered is possible through the janaagraha system. I wrote them an email from my personal mail id and from their web site about two years ago when I was very keen to understand it deeper, purely as a common citizen- I got no response- heck not even an acknowledgement/canned reply! But found this on the site -try these two links for documents on the topic. If it does not work, I'll mail them to you.
http://www.janaagraha.org/partner/Handbook_to_u_bmp_budget.pdf

http://www.janaagraha.org/node/1304

@ RTI- HT recently had a report on a Vashi School teacher who found out to RTI that the current governor has spent 35 lakhs on his largely personal trips. How wonderful is it- her effort- but seriously, what next? Pls. see my blogpost- breaking news or just broken. After RTI what? I should have some idea about what to do after I get the info- other then hide from the goons of the powerful ones of course! And my family too :)

Change will take place, but very slowly, very painfully and probably at the cost of many sections of society such as poor, weak and vulnerable.

At the simplest level it is about doing a job done well.(keeping sites updated/people informed). If a job is worth doing - it is worth doing well.

It is about asking the right questions, not seeking right answers (there will rarely be one)

The computation of the amount is at:
http://cities.expressindia.com/local-news/fullstory.php?newsid=236294

Thank you for all the responses! It is very helpful.

Deepa - Thanks for that detailed comment. Here are...

2007-10-22T17:34:00.000+05:30

Deepa - Thanks for that detailed comment. Here are my views on your points..

1. You can't. You have to demand accountability from him/her. That way you'll get an idea if he has any capability of handling finances. From what I've read of Mr. D'Souza he has a decent enough track record. Are there any other corporators with a similar track record in Mumbai? I'm sure there are (Ashish Shelar comes to mind), but I'm not sure how many are independants.

2. The organisation is bigger than the individual. They have to learn from their mistakes and move to other candidates in other areas of Mumbai.

3 and 4. I'm not sure how much of the Rs1 demanded is going towards rent, because the newspaper article didn't mention rent anywhere. Does a corporator work out of the BMC ward office? or out of an office given by a political party? If you check here, the addresses of the corporators are all personal ones. If Mr. D'Souza works out of the Ward Office, then sure there is no need for a separate office.

5. Good point. If this was something that VoteMumbai, the Juhu people and Mr. D'Souza didn't anticipate, then they have only themselves to blame. Perhaps, people who felt offended by this demand will not vote for him next time. I also hope that these same people will at least demand some track record from whichever corporator they put on board.

I doubt if corporators publish accounts because the BMC itself publishes its annual budget. I'm sure one can get individual ward finances through an RTI application. The system will always be tough, its the people (who are in it, who use and abuse it) who make it tougher. Its extremely frustrating.

Finally you can raise the follow-up issues at the Juhu ALM wikispace, which, incidentally has also not been updated!

ba, I am working only on the basis of what little ...

2007-10-22T17:01:00.000+05:30

ba, I am working only on the basis of what little I know based on mostly your posts (and links), so please excuse any lapses on my part. What I get is;

1. How can I trust my corporator with money to the tune of Rs. 2 cr. if he cannot manage his own finances?
2. What does this mean for credibility issues for orgn. for future who supported/fielded the candidate?
3. Somewhere I read that the computation was based on heads one of which was such as "office rent" - and it said that office rent in JUHU is ..x amount X y month. By this time of my comment which is almost half a year down the line, property prices have skyrocketed. So does that mean the Re.1 will automatically undergo a rise?
4. In any case can /what are the issues with/ the corporator work out of premises that belong to the BMC/ such as the ward office/muncipal market etc.
5. Of course the salary is a pittance but that is no surprise that popped up and in any case, the job would not have been taken up for the salary.
See I don't have any idea about these issues and my purpose is to learn, not to debate for the sake of one. So, again I do aplogise if anything appears polemic. As I said, the system has worked for me -that was my idea in mentioning the details-not getting kudos, though praise is always welcome!- because normally one gets "have you voted? what do you know?

There is a system, it is not tough (er) than any in the US or UK- unless one wants to circumvent/cheat it. It works most times. Some systems are horribly worse than others. I can tell you which and where I've faced blocks, and gritted my teeth knowing a phone call would have spared me the grind. And I've been called a fool by all, but a few friends, who know me. That is why I say I am happy I did it all a decade ago. I would not have any patience to do that now. But like anyone else at least that I know, I do not "trust" the system. The real issue is corruption- which one is hoping to root out with interventions such as agni and janaagraha. Trust that comes with transparency, accountability and re-course and not because of "personal contacts".
5. I am also curious (and sure I'd insist on it) if the corporator will publish statements of accounts. This will demonstrate an " actions speak louder than words" best and public will have no need for crib.

Actually if I, as a voter, had not raised these issues before voting for him, I'd probably shut up later. Not because I should , but because it is likely I'd feel a fool or been made one. As a lapse of due diligence on the voters part for not making sufficient enquiries or understanding the system. And what really disappoints me is that the JUHU citizens site has not been updated since. Whatever little I have gleaned is from your blog and Mid-day I think- I can't remember what results came up in google search. How typical is that of babudom. Kaam ho gaya. Ab baat bhi khatam ho gayi. Ghar Jaao sab lok. Nor the AGNI site has any updates, communiques etc. when I last saw it. Unless I cannot find it there. They are doing so much good work and it'd be such a shame to slip up on minor things such as this. Devil is in the details!

Deepa

Deepa - Thanks a ton for all these detailed commen...

2007-10-22T15:58:00.000+05:30

Deepa - Thanks a ton for all these detailed comments and your visits to my blogs!

I think while on prinicple one might differ with this Rs1 issue, but in practical terms if the system has given up and if there's one person in the system who can still try and change things if given a chance, I think I'll give him that chance.

Hats off to you for going through all those procedure to get those documents. Indeed, the system - assuming there is one at all - is a tough one. Thanks again for the comments!

BA, What would you do?- My first response to your ...

2007-10-16T13:47:00.000+05:30

BA, What would you do?- My first response to your question was, of course I'd pay Re.1/! - a one liner. I would too if AD was the corporator chosen from my ward, in which case quite likely due he'd have been the likely choice too.

But as it stands, it is not so. i.e. it is an academic question
now and it is not so much as an affected citizen but as a concerned one with an interest to
influence the system I would probably hold my response back. Re. 1 is not the issue. One
rupee is a lot of money compared to zero. Even auto guys make it a point to return the all important Re.1 change. Sarabhai v/s Sarabhai nahin dekhto ho kya? Manisha Sarabhai se poocho Pachis rupaiye me kitna sara milta hai:) So it presents a lot of possibilities from the perspective of how to manage a change process, because that is what it amounts to -and change is about managing emotions,communication,systems etc. Change cannot be implemented @Rs. 25 a month. Also, I guess that all governing libran habit of weighing all issues to death wins. Next time I will just pay up Re.1 and shut up! I promise.

about rest-I have voted in almost every election since I was eligible-I have a Voter ID card since it was launched/valid which I think was some time in 1990. I didn't vote at last/this one. I
did wonder what was happening with the Juhu Agni candidate experience and your blog is the only place where I've found anything at all useful.

I have a PAN card since more than a decade now. Passport I have stood in the queue (one lunch hour)-applied/submitted it. Got it in 45 days and this is as far back as again I think 1994. All I did personally/directly and no help from any relative, agent, family member (read- dad, brother, husband). And all not for document/identification purposes- though it is a relief to know I have all. Sometimes it does seem as if those of us who stayed back
in India -the RI Indians -are being "punished" by the system for having made the choice.

Yet,at no point in time have I felt that I have recourse to the law or justice or electoral
system (for instance,taken comfort in the fact that I can approach the local police or my
MLA etc). To the common (wo)man, the system is as irrelevant as to a farmer in the rural
village, about who is the Agricultural Minister or what is the nations foreign policy.

Thank you for all your posts and the thoughtful responses.

This kinda wraps up all(??) my thoughts on the election/Voter ID posts. (I can hear your sigh of relief!) :)

Raj - Please click this link for the phone numbers...

2007-09-28T16:34:00.000+05:30

Raj - Please click this link for the phone numbers where you can call up to get the schedule and further details. Thanks for the visit and comment.

I am residing at bhoiwada(Mumbai),I missed out the...

2007-09-27T17:37:00.000+05:30

I am residing at bhoiwada(Mumbai),I missed out the dates for Voters ID Card.. Can you please guide me whom should I approach

Rajesh

CSM - thanks. Here is the link to the same news co...

2007-06-28T11:38:00.000+05:30

CSM - thanks. Here is the link to the same news covered in Express.

mm - saw the news today in TOI (page 7) on the rai...

2007-06-27T15:55:00.000+05:30

mm - saw the news today in TOI (page 7) on the raise that the corporators are being given. from 4600 to 10200.
our friend adolf has been quoted extensively along with the Re 1 a day scheme :-)

CSM - While I don't see anything wrong with a corp...

2007-05-23T11:22:00.000+05:30

CSM - While I don't see anything wrong with a corporate logo (in fact its happened before..companies have taken over mgmt of railways stations, parks, etc). it would be interesting to see how - if at all - this would work out. I mean, I doubt whether the BMC will let anything get away from their hands into that of a corporate! lets see how this works out..

MMi dont think there is much wrong with giving som...

2007-05-22T15:50:00.000+05:30

MM
i dont think there is much wrong with giving some mileage to sponsors and donors. as long as it is not gaudy. and this is a good chance for donors to support an upright politician. has not happened before without the 'lobbying' angle.

will also be interesting to see how adolf handles the councillor funds. this could be a great initiative for the BMC to put these expenditures/investments in public domain. karmayog maybe!!

CSM - thanks for the comment. On 3 - fair pointOn ...

2007-05-21T19:30:00.000+05:30

CSM - thanks for the comment.

On 3 - fair point

On 4 - I don't see it so much as a demand... I mean the people who voted him, still have an option to refuse him, right? Besides, I think this is just one idea they're thinking of. Hopefully, they'd have more.

On 5 - fair point, but I wonder if a corporate would donate without asking something in return..perhaps a brand endorsement or a strategically-placed logo? then again, is there anything wrong with that?

Thanks for the clarification...I was wondering where Alfred came from!

sorry - adolf and not alfred...too many batman com...

2007-05-21T17:48:00.000+05:30

sorry - adolf and not alfred...too many batman comics recently:-)